"Chuck Norris finishes his degree in the prescribed time frame."
Spotted on the elevator at the university U-Bahn stop. Evidently students don’t like the fact that you are expected to finish your degree in a certain number of semesters. I know that some universities if you go over the expected number of semesters (usually 6 for a Bachelor’s degree, 10 for a combined Bachelor’s and Masters’) you have to pay extra tuition for the rest of the semesters, which does seem like a nasty thing to do.
Still, I wish somebody would sit me down and explain German university politics to me in a way that would make me sympathetic. I’m never going to be empathetic, really, because Americans pay for their higher education, and Germans don’t, and this fact makes it really hard for me to understand a lot of their complaints.
For example, on Tuesday, some of the students in my politics seminar made a big stink about the fact that our course reader cost 17.80 Euros. American students, let me ask you, did you ever get away with paying only 17.80 for textbooks for one of your classes? Because I know I didn’t. So part of me is like “Yes, intellectually, this makes sense, we also complained about our $200 books for our classes…” but another part of me thinks “What the hell is wrong with you?”
(Especially when, after a ten-minute argument about the course reader, and another ten minute argument about how much reading there is (the reading for the entire semester amounts to two, maybe three weeks of readings from a seminar at home, and they only have to write two papers, and short papers at that, no tests), somebody asks if we can have more readings about Canada. Not if you can’t handle what we already have, sweetie.)
Same deal with finishing your degree in the regulation amount of time: in America, the number one politically viable reason people take a long time is because they’re working part-time to pay off the cost of the degree, right? Does the same situation exist in Germany, where degrees don’t cost as much?
I asked a few Americans I knew who had spent a longer time here than I had, and all of them said “I’ve never met a German who was working part-time during their studies,” and true, those Germans are probably harder to meet than non-working Germans, but still, where are they? What are their stories? How can I as an outsider find out what’s going on? I wish there were a seminar on that.
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Here!
Apart from 2 semesters i worked always at least part time and my Regelstudienzeit is ancient history.
Asking from another perspective. Why do you Americans pay so much?
The difference in the systems is IMHO that in Germany it is believed that “the society”/”the economy” profits from well educated people. So the aim is to offer affordable education for everyone.
Comment by arved November 3, 2009 @ 9:59 pmarved– Thanks! That’s definitely a useful way to think about the differences between the two systems–Americans think education is your own responsibility and you should have to pay for it, or be impressive enough to get someone else to agree to pay for it, and Germans like to offer education for everyone.
Although then that doesn’t jive with the tracking system in Germany. In the USA, everyone who completes any kind of high school has the chance to go to some sort of college, whereas in Germany the kids stuck in the Hauptschule have that option closed off to them. Money and knowledge about scholarships is the limiting factor for us, but Germany limits the ability of people to go to university five years earlier when they aren’t on an Abitur track, in a way. Interesting stuff.
Comment by Lauren Stokes November 9, 2009 @ 10:08 amHi Lauren,
I finally found your blog and I really like your posts!
I’d like to add some thoughts that might explain some of the questions you’re having. First, I can absolutely see where you are coming from ’cause from an American perspective, some of the quarrels at a German university seem exaggerated and somehow ridiculous but here’s one German attempt to explain:
The idea of paying money for your education is definitely new in Germany although it’s been more and more introduced in German university system (we have Bachelor and Master programs now for which you have to pay – up to 1000 Euro per year). Since university education is still not necessarily linked to making debts or getting a loan, parents and students do not even think about saving up money for education. That sounds trivial but I think it’s an important factor: I heard of plenty of US college students whose parents had saved up money since kindergarten. So, Germans usually cringe at the mere thought of having to pay for extra stuff like books.
Although German high school system seems unjust (which I would argue is absolutely true) it does have a purpose: it prepares people who go to a Gymnasium for college and those students who go to Realschule / Hauptschule to learn more practical stuff. The US does seem more just at the first look but the private / public high school system also kind of sorts people according to what colleges they will go to. And then, the college system in the US is more diverse in terms of quality. Of course, more people in the US do at least some college, but community colleges and such are comparable to the higher classes in Gymnasium and to most qualified job training we have. Nevertheless, the colleges that are comparable to German colleges are less heterogenous compared to German ones. Although we only have approx. 25% of working class people in university, this rate is lower in the US.
Those colleges that have a high cost and consequently provide an excellent learning experience are far better than the average German university: They have better mentoring programs, an excellent infrastructure, professors etc. Since Americans know that they will get an excellent education once they pay so much money, they pay without complaining. In my opinion, German universities lack certain structures to provide excellent teaching so students have a harder time to find through the college jungle: we don’t necessarily have mentors, confusing rules & schedules and it depends way more on your own engagement. There is no one telling you what to do and where to go. I think that US colleges provide more guidance and make sure that you’re fine. (So, doing everything on your own is time-consuming and bugging and it’s a bit harder to concentrate on your studies. Plus, I do believe, that most students have to work part-time; at least most of my friends do). So, Germans hesitate paying a university system that is not always very student-friendly.
I hope that made sense.. and I hope that wasn’t annoyingly long
Magda (from Olivia’s birthday party)
Comment by Magda November 11, 2009 @ 2:54 pm